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Post by Takahashi Rin - Tkh (Maggie) on Apr 13, 2014 10:26:40 GMT -5
I have three questions.
I) The action says that the roll is a 20 if the other realm doesn't want diplomatic relations with me, how do I know that? Do I make a post in the diplomacy forums or just let you inform me after I put in my orders.
II) And what is the effect if they want diplomatic relations with me, shouldn't that like, make it automatic?
III) And I forgot what the third question was, so apparently I have only two questions.
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Post by Takahashi Rin - Tkh (Maggie) on Apr 13, 2014 10:28:24 GMT -5
Oh yeah, now I remember! III) Do I have to establish relations separately for my clan and my sect?
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 13, 2014 11:31:03 GMT -5
I) Post it in the diplomacy sub-boards, and unless the recipient indicates a desire to oppose, it is assumed they are willing. II) There is always the chance that somebody will say yhe wrong thing, or that some detail will not be resolvable, so it is never automatic. But with a DDC 5 and taking 10, it pretty much is automatic. III) Yup, they are separate entities.
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Post by Takahashi Rin - Tkh (Maggie) on Apr 13, 2014 15:01:18 GMT -5
I) Thanks! II) Makes sense, I didn't even think of taking 10. III) I disagree. Here's why. Let's I want to talk to the Sato clan, but have no relations with them, so I go to the Yamashita clan who has relations with us both and do a diplomacy and ask them to approach the Sato clan with whatever I wanted to say to them. I can do that, right?
So, if I want to talk to the Maeda clan but don't have relations, why can't I go to the Ogori Bunsha, who I have relations with and talk to the High priest about whatever I want out of the Maeda clan? Isn't that pretty much the same thing as using the Yamashita as go betweens, except that the High Priest just happens to be the same guy as the Maeda clan chief?
And along those lines I have another question (sorry if I'm being a pest). My High Priest is from another clan, he is Ogawa and I already have relations with them, but what about a situation like the Nishio Bunsha where the High Priestess is a Takagi, could they not use that connection as sort of a backdoor to contact the Takagi clan without having to have formal relations?
And if we can do that, then can we use followers and lieutenants as a backdoor as well? What about the anonymous shrine maidens/spirit masters of each shrine, it would be pretty likely that there is at least one from whatever clan or family I want to talk to somewhere in my shrine network, right?
I can see how this sort of eliminates the need for establishing diplomatic relations, and I won't argue for any of it more if you say no, but I think it really adds to the clan-based flavour of the setting, because family and who is related to who becomes really important.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 13, 2014 22:16:00 GMT -5
I kind of agree, it does fit the clan-based model well, but the sects present a problem for the reason you pointed out.
What I think I will do is put it to a discussion, we're very democratic that way here in Zaidan.
So, here are some ideas I have. 1) You can use a go between. 2) However you can still engage in diplomacy with anybody you have some clan connection to, but that takes a character action on the part of the person doing the diplomacy (which uses up a regent action). 3) Established diplomatic relations are required to do Diplomacy as a court action 4) Established diplomatic relations are required to make any formal agreement or treaty. 5) As far as using followers, etc., you can't just pull them out of thin air, they have to be existing lieutenants/henchmen/followers, which means you can't use them for diplomacy the DT you hire them.
I think in order for this to work, I'll have to create a random clan table or something to use to determine the clan or family of the people who respond to calls for followers, etc.
What does everybody think of those ideas? Does it work for you, see anything that needs to be changed? have any other ideas?
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Post by Valdemarstor on Apr 14, 2014 8:03:23 GMT -5
Makes sense. However, I thought about this while laying in bed last night trying to sleep. While I think personal diplomacy might be heavily dependent on relations -- Maeda Yuudai would certainly know people as the Lord of Agari Retto that he would want to talk to as the Spirit Master of Ogori Bunsha, and those acquaintances would be useful and relevant -- diplomatic actions are not just Person A talking to Person B. Successful checks involve a host of administrative nonsense that requires doing the paperwork correctly, so to speak. When heads of state and foreign ministers go off script, it can create all sorts of crises for the diplomatic corps and foreign ministries behind them. In that context, forcing us to go by-the-book makes sense to me.
That said, maybe regents/characters can do personal diplomacy without relations at a penalty?
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 14, 2014 9:10:41 GMT -5
Makes sense. However, I thought about this while laying in bed last night trying to sleep. While I think personal diplomacy might be heavily dependent on relations -- Maeda Yuudai would certainly know people as the Lord of Agari Retto that he would want to talk to as the Spirit Master of Ogori Bunsha, and those acquaintances would be useful and relevant -- diplomatic actions are not just Person A talking to Person B. Successful checks involve a host of administrative nonsense that requires doing the paperwork correctly, so to speak. When heads of state and foreign ministers go off script, it can create all sorts of crises for the diplomatic corps and foreign ministries behind them. In that context, forcing us to go by-the-book makes sense to me. That said, maybe regents/characters can do personal diplomacy without relations at a penalty? Good points, I had thought the same sort of thing. Maybe just have the clan connection give a bonus, something along the lines of what we had in mind when tossing around the cadet clan idea. Oh, and in going over this thread I noticed I hadn't made it clear so I will reiterate it now. You do NOT need to establish relations with each domain separately.
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Post by Valdemarstor on Apr 14, 2014 9:14:52 GMT -5
Hmm. Can you spell out then when we need to use a Decree action and when we don't?
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 14, 2014 9:57:38 GMT -5
In relation to Diplomacy, well Tristan's interpretation that the court actions required to call a Court Session are effectively decrees works fine, you would also have to use a decree to promulgate certain aspects of any agreement (say something like a reduction in the tax rate on Domain A's holdings, or some such thing). Basically the Decree action is used to announce something to your populace or to issue orders to your Court/minor officers.
Another example: Say A wants to move troops through B's territory on a one time basis, that would not require a formal Decree, but for them to be allowed to do so on an ongoing basis would.
Now, back to the Diplomatic relations, I think the best way to handle that is to just say that your regents and Lieutenants have diplomatic relations with their native clans, that way we avoid the problem of the temple domains just sprouting followers as needed. Maybe your some Administrators (Chancellor & Chamberlain come to mind) could also come with that sort of automatic relations.
But we can give a bonus to Diplomacy actions where a follower with a clan connection exists.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 14, 2014 9:58:35 GMT -5
Another idea is to allow Dispatch actions where a clan connection exists, but Diplomacy requires formal relations.
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