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Post by Bob (DM) on May 25, 2014 16:54:44 GMT -5
It occurred to me that according to the rules, the subject clans should have a Court action (you get 1 even if you set your court expenditure at 0 GB).
This would give the an advantage in extra court actions (though the ability to pay for them would be doubtful to the non-temple positions, but this could be off-set by allowing the temple players to get a Lt for their landed realm and their temple (for a maximum of 2 Lt actions instead of the normal 1 action limit).
What do you all think about instituting this rule?
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on May 27, 2014 4:51:11 GMT -5
Considering that it costs a court action to give them cash (which they'd probably need to take the action) and their bonus with a 0 court sucks I'm not sure I'd use their court actions even if they had them.
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Post by Bob (DM) on May 27, 2014 21:24:31 GMT -5
This is true, though the Subject clans do have some money of their own (particularly the minor merchants the wizards get), though that would imply the need to track their courts as well, not really something I think we want to do.
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Jul 12, 2015 21:34:46 GMT -5
Having re-read a lot of things I'd recommend scrapping subject clans from the mechanics and considering the level of support a subject clan provides to their liege as being part of the Stability of the domain as well as a source of random events (positive/negative depending on how happy they are).
Positives are that it removes a book-keeping requirement to something that already exists as a mechanic, keeps the subject clans as a role-playing mechanic and source of fluff for events. It gets rids of the need to manage multiple "subject" actions.
The only negative I can see is that it removes a mechanical value indicating how powerful subject is (which I think should be a more nebulous role-playing thing anyway).
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Alex
Junior Member
Posts: 92 
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Post by Alex on Jul 13, 2015 16:44:33 GMT -5
Tristan, thanks for the reminder, I need to get my head into the rules again. Thanks for that  |
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Post by Bob (DM) on Jul 14, 2015 20:42:05 GMT -5
I am still mulling over how to handle the subject clans. They can't really be just rolled into a stability mechanic because they are effectively vassals per regular Birthright. The Lesser clans are basically just like the Barony of the house rules Grant Barony, and also there to provide flavour & fluff value (i.e. you recruit followers, etc. from among them, Great Captain events would involve one, and so on). |
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Jul 14, 2015 22:50:25 GMT -5
Even if they are vassals they are so tiny as to be effectively pointless as independent entities, with only a small holding in an area with a dominant lord they'd be swallowed up. I'd just roll them into the "Court" and have their devotion to the ruling lineage be part of the stability mechanic.
I'm generally against mechanics that have/create vassals/subjects that aren't strong enough to be a potentially PC playable realm. They tend to be
(a) abused.
(b) generate workload for little return.
(c) slow up the game in unnecessary detail.
I'm all for keeping the fluff and favour, canon BR had the names of notable families in the province/domain description and role-playing events targeting them. As an example if a Great Captain event hits me then pick one of the subject clans that fits the reason and spin him off with the appropriate holdings (excised from the regents normal domain) to represent the effect until it is resolved.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Jul 14, 2015 23:40:25 GMT -5
Well one problem with that idea is that I have to redo everything, the holdings and SR sheets all would have to be redone.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Jul 14, 2015 23:46:54 GMT -5
However, never let it be said I would shirk work. If you can come up with some sort of workable system for rolling them into the stability/court, then send it to me and I'll look it over, I don't have time for the next few days at the least.
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Jul 15, 2015 18:17:04 GMT -5
From the Regents Guide.
Subject clans are basically the apparatus of government, they provide the court functionaries, magistrates and all the other minor samurai who make things work properly. If people are miss-managing their underlings then stability should be taking a hit.
It's more a general design philosophy for me, where possible unnecessary detail/bookkeeping should be moved into already available mechanics and the fluff component (i.e. NPC names etc) should be kept as fluff, rather than adding mechanics to accommodate fluff.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Jul 16, 2015 21:02:56 GMT -5
I think what I will do is redefine the subject clans as Barons per the Grant Barony action, thus they give you 1 extra court action, and the lesser clans have no actions associated with them. Other than that your basic plan will work fine.
This has a couple of advantages, first of which is it only requires me to alter one table, and secondly, it differentiates between the subject clans (who have at least a level 1 holding) and the lesser clans (who have 0 level holdings). It also gives the PC an advantage (1 free Court action) in exchange for giving up the holding levels.
Subject clans can also have fortifications and units (albeit very few) of their own which they can contribute to the PC's armies, etc.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Jul 22, 2015 16:16:45 GMT -5
Just an update and a clarification.
Subject clans give you an extra Court action to use as you please. They also have a Regent or Character action, but you have to use a decree or Diplomacy type action to access it (effectively letting you swap a Court action for an extra Regent action). They are however governed by the limitations of the Grant: Barony action (no more than two per province)
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