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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Mar 30, 2014 22:29:43 GMT -5
The Research Realm Spell action gets modified by the researcher's Spellcraft NWP modifier.
How do we calculate this?
For example (and this is a hypothetical).
The Ao No Wushi wants to research a new level 1 realm spell.
The DDC is Base 10 + Spell Level x 2, which equates to 12.
My modifiers are stability (+0) and court (-1) so based on these I can't take a 10 (10+0-1=9=Fail), but this is modified by my Spellcraft NWP modifier, which is a 2nd edition reference and I'm a 3rd edition character (or at least character sheet). So I don't know what to add.
This is reasonably important because I need to know if I can take a 10, or if I need to throw some GB/RP at the action to improve my chances.
My personal preference is that you take the characters total (3rd edition) bonus, divide by 5, round down and make this the NWP modifier, or that we get a nice simple table (I.e. skill level x = bonus y).
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Post by Bob (DM) on Mar 30, 2014 23:19:27 GMT -5
Oh crap! I didn't fix that. I'll look into it and get back to you.
On a related note, if you have a skill not mentioned in the action description that you think you can apply to the situation, just explain how you plan to use it to affect the action. If it's a really big explanation, you can post it in your private forum.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Mar 30, 2014 23:26:54 GMT -5
OK, well the NWP modifier mentioned is the 2E equivalent of the 3E Ability modifier.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Mar 30, 2014 23:29:31 GMT -5
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Mar 31, 2014 0:12:25 GMT -5
That may be too powerful, whack a point in the skill and get the full stat modifier as a bonus. Seems a little bit cheesy to me.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Mar 31, 2014 0:16:17 GMT -5
I'll think it over, and get back to you (it's 1:15 AM here and I'm heading to bed).
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 3, 2014 12:35:32 GMT -5
Well, assuming an INT of 18 or 19, the modifier is a +4 or +5 which doesn't seem particularly outrageous to me.
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Apr 3, 2014 15:02:03 GMT -5
The outrageous issue is that I can get that modifier with only 1 skill point. While someone with 20 skill points but only a +1 INT modifier only gets a +1.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 3, 2014 15:53:45 GMT -5
Skill points have nothing to do with it, it is purely based on the ability score.
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Apr 3, 2014 17:49:53 GMT -5
Skill points have nothing to do with it, it is purely based on the ability score. I understand this, and I think that this is unfair. The benefit should be based off both the ability and the skill (hence my recommended total bonus, divide 5, round down). Otherwise it encourages characters who have 1 point in every skill under the sun.
If you purely base it off the ability score then their is no difference (at least in terms of action benefit) to being a Level 1 Wizard with 4 skill points in Spellcraft and an Intelligence of 18 and a level 20 Wizard with 23 points in Spellcraft and an intelligence of 18.
If it is purely ability based they both get a +4 bonus, using my system it goes from a +1 bonus for the Level 1 Wizard to a +5 bonus for the Level 20 Wizard, which I think is much more representative of the abilities of the characters involved.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 3, 2014 19:09:19 GMT -5
Yup. That's how it works at the moment.
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Post by Bob (DM) on Apr 4, 2014 12:16:41 GMT -5
OK, having done a little research (i.e. made sure I understand the 3E rules right) the way skills work is as follows. According to the DMG, you have to make a Spellcraft check with a target DC of 10 + spell level to research a new conventional spell. So, the 1st level guy in your example would make that roll with a +8 (4 ranks + 4 for Int), and the 20th level guy would make his roll with a +27 (23 ranks +4 for Int). (The +27 seems kind of high, so please let me know if I have that wrong)
The Research action has the DDC for a conventional or realm spell as 10 + 2 times the spell level) for conventional spells, modified by Intelligence & Level.
So, if we go with the published DMG rules for conventional spells (10 + Lvl), and go with the higher DDC (10 + 2xLvl)for realm spells, and make both a straight up Spellcraft check, then assuming they are researching a 1st level spell, the DDC for a conventional spell would be 11, and the 1st level guy would need to roll a 3 or better to succeed, and the 20th level guy has no chance of failing. For a realm spell, the DDC would be 12, and the 1st level guy needs a 4 or better, and the 20th level guy again, cannot fail. In fact, the 20th level guy cannot fail unless he is researching a 9th level realm spell.
The RoE rules have Researching a Realm spell as an automatic success action, and you need to get 1 success for every level of the spell, so, I think that using the above formula is acceptable if we incorporate the the multiple success requirement of RoE.
Thus, the DDC for spell research is as follows Conventional spell: 10 + Lvl. 1 successful roll required regardless of spell level. Realm spell: 10 + 2xLvl. 1 successful roll required for every level of the spell.
Is that satisfactory to everybody?
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Post by Tanaka Kozo -Tnk (Tristan) on Apr 4, 2014 23:03:06 GMT -5
Works for me.
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